The internet, originally designed for efficient information retrieval, is increasingly mimicking the disorienting and consumerist design of shopping malls, a phenomenon known as the Gruen Transfer. Websites, particularly social media platforms, employ tactics like infinite scroll, algorithmically curated content, and strategically placed ads to keep users engaged and subtly nudge them towards consumption. This creates a digital environment optimized for distraction and impulsive behavior, sacrificing intentional navigation and focused information seeking for maximized "dwell time" and advertising revenue. The author argues this trend is eroding the internet's original purpose and transforming it into a sprawling, consumerist digital mall.
The "cold start problem" refers to the difficulty new products face gaining initial traction due to a lack of existing users or content. This blog post explores how leveraging network effects can overcome this challenge. It emphasizes the importance of designing products where the value increases with each new user, creating a virtuous cycle of growth. Strategies discussed include building single-player value to attract initial users, focusing on specific niches to concentrate network effects, utilizing data-driven personalization, and seeding the platform with content or users. The post highlights the importance of strategically choosing the right network effect type for your product – direct, indirect, or two-sided – and adapting your approach as the product matures and the network grows.
HN users generally found the article a surface-level treatment of the cold start problem, offering little beyond well-known advice. Several commenters pointed out the lack of concrete, actionable strategies, especially regarding "manufactured network effects." The most compelling comments criticized the reliance on generic examples like social networks and marketplaces, desiring more nuanced discussion about niche products. Some suggested exploring alternative solutions like single-player value, SEO, and paid acquisition, while others questioned the actual effectiveness of some proposed "network effects," labeling them as mere virality or growth hacks. A few appreciated the introductory nature, finding it a decent primer for beginners, but the overall sentiment leaned towards disappointment with the lack of depth.
The blog post reminisces about PC Connection's quirky and memorable computer catalog ads from the late 80s and 90s, specifically focusing on their use of anthropomorphic raccoons. These ads, created by the agency Mullen, eschewed typical tech advertising tropes and instead employed humor and surreal imagery featuring the raccoons engaging in various activities related to computers, often with absurd results. This unique approach, combined with competitive pricing, helped PC Connection stand out in a crowded market and solidify a loyal customer base who appreciated the lighthearted and entertaining nature of their advertising.
HN commenters fondly recalled the iconic PC Connection raccoon ads, praising their humor and distinct style in a time before ubiquitous internet advertising. Some shared personal anecdotes of looking forward to the ads and appreciating their creativity. Several remembered the company's clever catalog copy and overall quirky brand identity, with a few noting the ads' effectiveness in making the company memorable. A couple of users pointed out the high production quality of the ads, suggesting they were likely expensive to produce, reflecting a different era of advertising. One commenter mentioned the "bathtub" ad as particularly memorable, while another questioned if the ads were actually effective in driving sales.
The blog post "What if we made advertising illegal?" explores the potential societal benefits of a world without advertising. It argues that advertising manipulates consumers, fuels overconsumption and unsustainable growth, promotes harmful products, and pollutes public spaces and our minds. By eliminating advertising, the author suggests we could reclaim public space, reduce consumption and waste, foster more meaningful cultural production, and encourage healthier lifestyles. This shift would necessitate new funding models for media and cultural institutions, potentially leading to more diverse and democratic forms of content creation.
HN users generally support the idea of banning or heavily regulating advertising, citing its manipulative nature, negative impact on mental health, contribution to consumerism, and distortion of media. Some propose alternative funding models for media and other services, such as subscriptions, micropayments, or public funding. Several commenters acknowledge the difficulty of implementing such a ban, particularly given the entrenched power of the advertising industry and the potential for black markets. A few dissenting voices argue that advertising plays a vital role in informing consumers and supporting free services, and that a ban would be overly restrictive and harmful to the economy. Several discuss the potential unintended consequences of such a drastic measure.
Robin Sloan reflects on the evolving nature of online stores, arguing against the prevailing trend of mimicking large marketplaces like Amazon. He champions the idea of smaller, more curated shops that prioritize a unique browsing experience and foster a direct connection with customers. These "shopkeepers" should embrace the web's potential for individual expression and build digital spaces that reflect their own tastes and passions, rather than striving for sterile efficiency. He encourages creators to consider the emotional impact of their shops, emphasizing the joy of discovery and the personal touch that distinguishes a truly memorable online retail experience.
HN commenters largely agreed with the author's premise that "shopkeeping" tasks, like managing infrastructure and deployments, distract from product development. Many shared their own experiences of getting bogged down in these operational details, echoing the frustration of context switching and the feeling of being a "glorified sysadmin." Some suggested various solutions, from embracing serverless platforms and managed services to hiring dedicated DevOps engineers or even outsourcing entirely. A particularly compelling comment thread discussed the "build vs. buy" dilemma, with some arguing that building custom solutions, while initially attractive, often leads to increased shopkeeper duties down the line. Others emphasized the importance of early investment in automation and tooling to minimize future maintenance overhead. A few countered that small teams and early-stage startups might not have the resources for these solutions and that some level of shopkeeping is inevitable.
The 2005 Sony Bravia advertisement, famous for its vibrant depiction of 250,000 bouncing rubber balls cascading down a San Francisco hill, was a significant cultural moment. Shot on location over several days, the ad aimed to showcase the vivid color capabilities of the new Bravia televisions. While digitally enhanced to add more balls and smooth out imperfections, the core of the ad used practical effects, relying on the natural bounce and movement of the balls. Its production involved meticulous planning, street closures, and the collaboration of numerous artists and technicians. The ad became a sensation, boosting Sony's brand and inspiring numerous imitations.
HN commenters largely discuss the effectiveness and memorability of the Bravia ad, with many recalling it vividly years later. Some analyze the technical aspects of its production, noting the lack of CGI and the challenges of shooting with 250,000 bouncy balls. Several compare it favorably to modern advertising, lamenting the perceived decline in creativity and impact. A few users question the practicality and cost of the ad, while others share anecdotes about similar projects or express skepticism about its authenticity. The overall sentiment is one of appreciation for the ad's unique and engaging approach.
PostHog, a product analytics company, shares 50 lessons learned from building their own product. Key takeaways emphasize user feedback as paramount, from early access programs to continuous iteration based on observed behavior and direct conversations. A strong focus on solving specific, urgent problems for a well-defined target audience is crucial. Iterative development, rapid prototyping, and a willingness to abandon unsuccessful features are essential. Finally, internal alignment, clear communication, and a shared understanding of the product vision contribute significantly to success. They stress the importance of simplicity and usability, avoiding feature bloat, and consistently measuring the impact of changes.
Hacker News users generally praised the PostHog article for its practical, experience-based advice applicable to various stages of product development. Several commenters highlighted the importance of focusing on user needs and iterating based on feedback, echoing points made in the original article. Some appreciated the emphasis on internal communication and alignment within teams. A few users offered specific examples from their own experiences that reinforced the lessons shared by PostHog, while others offered constructive criticism, suggesting additional areas for consideration, such as the importance of distribution and marketing. The discussion also touched on the nuances of pricing strategies and the challenges of transitioning from a founder-led sales process to a more scalable approach.
Distro, a Y Combinator (S24) startup building tools to streamline software distribution and updates, is seeking a Marketing Lead in Palo Alto. This role will own and execute Distro's marketing strategy, focusing on content creation, community building, and demand generation to reach software developers. The ideal candidate has a proven track record in developer-focused marketing, strong communication skills, and a passion for developer tools. Experience with PLG (Product-Led Growth) and the software distribution landscape is a plus.
Several commenters on Hacker News express skepticism about the Distro marketing lead role, questioning the requested experience level for a Series A startup and the emphasis on traditional marketing tactics like billboards and radio ads. Some find the high salary ($170k-$250k) surprising for a marketing position, while others debate the effectiveness of older advertising channels versus digital strategies. A few commenters suggest the role might be better suited to someone with experience in growth marketing rather than brand marketing, given the company's stage and the nature of the product. The relatively high cost of living in Palo Alto is also mentioned as a factor influencing the salary range.
The blog post "Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)" argues that when seeking agreement or buy-in, framing requests negatively—asking for objections rather than approval—can be more effective. This "opt-out" approach lowers the barrier to engagement, making it easier for people to voice concerns they might otherwise keep to themselves. By explicitly inviting dissent, you gather valuable feedback, uncover hidden obstacles, and ultimately increase the likelihood of genuine agreement and successful implementation down the line. This proactive approach to identifying and addressing potential problems can lead to more robust solutions and stronger commitment from all involved parties.
Hacker News users discuss the nuances of the "ask for no" strategy. Several commenters point out that it's not about literally asking for "no," but rather framing the request in a way that makes it easy for someone to decline without feeling guilty or pressured. This approach is seen as particularly useful in sales, negotiations, and managing teams, fostering better relationships by respecting autonomy. Some argue it's a form of manipulation, while others defend it as a way to create psychological safety. The discussion also touches on cultural differences, noting that the directness of "asking for no" might not translate well in all environments. A few users share personal anecdotes of how this strategy has led to better outcomes, emphasizing the importance of sincerity and genuine respect for the other party's decision.
Tony Fadell, in an excerpt from his book "Build," reveals storytelling lessons learned from Steve Jobs while working on the iPod and iPhone. Jobs emphasized creating a simple, almost reductive narrative focused on a singular core message, avoiding feature lists. He believed in crafting an emotional connection with the audience by focusing on the "why" – how the product improves lives – rather than just the "what" – its technical specifications. Jobs also meticulously rehearsed presentations and product demos, controlling every detail to ensure a compelling and persuasive narrative. Finally, he insisted on empowering others to tell the story too, ensuring consistent messaging across the organization.
HN commenters largely discussed the value of storytelling, particularly in a business context. Some were skeptical of the excerpt's framing of Jobs as a "master storyteller," arguing that his success stemmed more from product vision and marketing savvy. Others pointed out the importance of substance over storytelling, suggesting that a compelling narrative can't mask a mediocre product. A few commenters shared personal anecdotes about effective storytelling in their own careers, while others debated the ethics of manipulating emotions through narrative. One highly upvoted comment highlighted the difference between manipulative and inspirational storytelling, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and genuine belief in the message.
In a 2014 Dezeen article, Justin McGuirk reflects on William Gibson's observation that burgeoning subcultures are rapidly commodified, losing their subversive potential before they fully form. McGuirk uses the example of a sanitized, commercialized "punk" aesthetic appearing in London shops, devoid of the original movement's anti-establishment ethos. He argues that the internet, with its instant communication and trend-spotting, accelerates this process. Essentially, the very act of identifying and labeling a subculture makes it vulnerable to appropriation by mainstream culture, transforming rebellion into a marketable product.
HN users generally agree with Gibson's observation about the rapid commodification of subcultures. Several commenters attribute this to the internet and social media, allowing trends to spread and be exploited much faster than in the past. Some argue that genuine subcultures still exist, but are more fragmented and harder to find. One commenter suggests commodification might not always be negative, as it can provide access to niche interests while another points out the cyclical nature of trends, with mainstream adoption often leading to subcultures moving underground and reinventing themselves. A few lament the loss of authenticity this process creates.
Scott Galloway's "Addiction Economy" argues that major tech platforms, like Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube, are deliberately engineered to be addictive. They exploit human vulnerabilities, using persuasive design and algorithms optimized for engagement, not well-being. This "attention arbitrage" model prioritizes maximizing user time and data collection, which are then monetized through targeted advertising. Galloway compares these platforms to cigarettes, highlighting their negative impact on mental health, productivity, and societal discourse, while also acknowledging their utility and the difficulty of regulation. He concludes that these companies have become too powerful and calls for greater awareness, stricter regulations, and individual responsibility in managing our relationship with these addictive technologies.
HN commenters largely agree with Galloway's premise that many tech companies intentionally engineer their products to be addictive. Several point out the manipulative nature of infinite scroll and notification systems, designed to keep users engaged even against their better interests. Some users offer personal anecdotes of struggling with these addictive qualities, while others discuss the ethical implications for designers and the broader societal impact. A few commenters suggest potential solutions, including stricter regulations and encouraging digital minimalism. Some disagreement exists on whether the responsibility lies solely with the companies or also with the users' lack of self-control. A compelling comment thread explores the parallels between social media addiction and gambling addiction, referencing similar psychological mechanisms and profit motives. Another interesting discussion revolves around the difficulty in defining "addiction" in this context and whether the term is being overused.
Svix, a webhooks service provider, is seeking a US-based remote Developer Marketer. This role involves creating technical content like blog posts, tutorials, and sample code to showcase Svix's capabilities and attract developers. The ideal candidate possesses strong writing and communication skills, a deep understanding of developer needs and preferences, and familiarity with webhooks and related technologies. Experience with content creation and developer communities is highly valued. This is a full-time position offering competitive salary and benefits.
Hacker News users generally expressed skepticism towards the "Developer Marketer" role advertised by Svix, questioning its purpose and practicality. Some saw it as a glorified content creator or technical writer, while others doubted the effectiveness of having developers handle marketing. A few commenters debated the merits of developer-focused marketing versus product-led growth, suggesting the former might be unnecessary if the product is truly excellent. The high salary range listed also drew attention, with some speculating it was influenced by Svix's Y Combinator backing and others arguing it reflects the difficulty of finding someone with the required skillset. Overall, the prevailing sentiment was one of cautious curiosity about the role's definition and potential success.
Trellis is a YC-backed startup building a platform to simplify and automate legal processes for startups, initially focusing on Delaware incorporations. They aim to make legal tasks like forming a company, issuing stock options, and managing cap tables as easy as possible, reducing the time and cost typically associated with these processes. Trellis is currently hiring engineers and designers to join their team.
Commenters on Hacker News express skepticism about the value proposition of Trellis, questioning whether automating social media for local businesses is truly a significant pain point. Some argue that the cost likely outweighs the benefits for small businesses, especially given existing free or low-cost scheduling tools. Others point out the difficulty in creating engaging, authentic social media content automatically, suggesting that genuine interaction is more effective than automated posts. The limited customization options within Trellis are also criticized. A few commenters offer alternative solutions like Buffer or Hootsuite, implying that Trellis doesn't offer enough differentiation to justify its existence. Finally, several commenters note the potential for abuse and spam if the platform isn't carefully managed.
Summary of Comments ( 162 )
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43769936
HN commenters largely agree with the article's premise that website design, particularly in e-commerce, increasingly uses manipulative "dark patterns" reminiscent of the Gruen Transfer in physical retail. Several point out the pervasiveness of these tactics, extending beyond shopping to social media and general web browsing. Some commenters offer specific examples, like cookie banners and endless scrolling, while others discuss the psychological underpinnings of these design choices. A few suggest potential solutions, including regulations and browser extensions to combat manipulative design, though skepticism remains about their effectiveness against the economic incentives driving these practices. Some debate centers on whether users are truly "manipulated" or simply making rational choices within a designed environment.
The Hacker News post "The Gruen Transfer is consuming the internet" has generated a moderate amount of discussion with a variety of perspectives on the article's core argument. While not an overwhelming number of comments, several contribute interesting points and counterpoints.
Several commenters agree with the author's premise, that the design of many websites and online platforms intentionally disorients and distracts users, similar to the "Gruen transfer" effect observed in shopping malls. One commenter highlights the pervasiveness of this design philosophy, suggesting it's not limited to e-commerce but extends to social media and other online spaces, creating an environment optimized for engagement over user experience. They lament the loss of simple, straightforward web design in favor of these more manipulative tactics.
Another commenter draws a parallel to the tactics employed by casinos, emphasizing the deliberate use of confusion and sensory overload to keep users engaged and spending. They point to the constant stream of notifications and dynamically updating content as examples of these techniques in action online.
However, not all commenters fully agree with the article's thesis. Some argue that while some platforms may employ such tactics, attributing it to a deliberate and widespread "Gruen transfer" effect is an oversimplification. They suggest that many design choices stem from A/B testing and iterative development, focusing on maximizing engagement metrics, rather than a conscious effort to disorient users. This leads to a discussion about the difference between intentional manipulation and the unintended consequences of data-driven design.
One commenter points out that the original concept of the Gruen transfer was itself controversial and debated, cautioning against applying it too broadly to the online world. They suggest that the analogy, while compelling, might not fully capture the nuances of online user behavior and platform design.
A few commenters also offer potential solutions and alternatives. One suggests supporting platforms and developers prioritizing user experience over engagement metrics. Another mentions browser extensions and tools that can help minimize distractions and simplify the online experience.
Overall, the comments section provides a valuable discussion around the article's central theme, exploring both the validity of the "Gruen transfer" analogy and the complexities of online platform design. While there's general agreement that many online spaces are designed to maximize engagement, often at the expense of user experience, the degree to which this is intentional and comparable to the Gruen transfer remains a point of contention.