The blog post argues against the common narrative that the Beatles single-handedly killed the careers of numerous 1950s and early 1960s rock and pop artists. It contends that many factors contributed to the shifting musical landscape, including changing audience tastes, the emergence of other influential bands, and the natural evolution of popular music. While acknowledging the Beatles' immense impact, the author emphasizes that artists like Fabian and Frankie Avalon were already fading in popularity before Beatlemania hit, and others, like Elvis, successfully adapted. The post concludes that attributing widespread career destruction solely to the Beatles is an oversimplification of a complex cultural shift.
Frank Herbert's Dune was heavily influenced by T.E. Lawrence's experiences in the Arab Revolt, as depicted in Seven Pillars of Wisdom. Herbert saw parallels between Lawrence's manipulation of Arab tribes against the Ottoman Empire and the potential for ecological and cultural manipulation on a desert planet. The Fremen, like the Bedouin, are desert-dwelling warriors whose culture and survival are intertwined with their harsh environment. Paul Atreides, like Lawrence, becomes a messianic figure, embracing the local customs and leading a rebellion against an oppressive empire. Herbert, however, was wary of the "Lawrence of Arabia" archetype and explored the dangers of unchecked messianic power and the unintended consequences of cultural manipulation, making Paul's journey a cautionary tale rather than a straightforward hero's narrative.
Hacker News commenters discuss the influence of T.E. Lawrence on Frank Herbert's Dune, agreeing that the parallels between Lawrence and Paul Atreides are evident. Some highlight Herbert's explicit mention of Lawrence as an inspiration, while others explore the shared themes of cultural manipulation, messianic figures, and the unintended consequences of intervening in foreign cultures. A few commenters delve into the historical context of Lawrence's exploits, offering additional insights into the complex political landscape of the Middle East and its potential reflection in Dune's world-building. One commenter notes Herbert's cynical view of leadership and revolution, suggesting that both Lawrence and Paul ultimately failed due to the inherent flaws in their approaches. Several users also recommend further reading on Lawrence, including his own writings like Seven Pillars of Wisdom.
R.E.M.'s trajectory from college-radio darlings to mainstream giants is examined through the lens of their 1991 album Out of Time. The article argues that the band's newfound popularity, while commercially successful, diluted their artistic integrity and signaled a broader shift in alternative rock towards commercial palatability. The album's polished production, reliance on softer instrumentation, and incorporation of orchestral elements, exemplified by the hit single "Losing My Religion," marked a departure from their earlier, rawer sound. This sonic shift, while broadening their audience, alienated some long-time fans who perceived it as a betrayal of their alternative roots. Ultimately, the article suggests that Out of Time represents a turning point, not just for R.E.M., but for alternative rock as a whole, illustrating the compromises and contradictions inherent in achieving mainstream success.
HN commenters discuss the Yale Review article about R.E.M.'s shift to mainstream success. Some felt the author romanticized the band's early indie days and overlooked the artistic merit of their later work, citing examples like "Automatic for the People" as proof of continued creativity. Others agreed with the premise, lamenting the perceived decline in quality after Bill Berry's departure and the adoption of a more generic sound. Several commenters debated the nature of "selling out," acknowledging the financial pressures and creative burnout bands face after years of touring and recording. A few chimed in with personal anecdotes about seeing R.E.M. live during different eras of their career, offering firsthand perspectives on their evolving sound. The overall sentiment leans towards a nuanced view of the band's trajectory, with many acknowledging the complexities of artistic evolution and commercial success.
Summary of Comments ( 166 )
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43373765
HN commenters largely debated the premise of the linked article, which argues the Beatles stifled the careers of many other artists. Some agreed, pointing to the overwhelming popularity of the Beatles and the difficulty other bands had getting attention. Others argued that the Beatles' influence was positive, inspiring countless musicians and expanding the possibilities of popular music. Several commenters brought up the cyclical nature of popular music, suggesting that the Beatles' rise coincided with a natural shift in the music scene, and that other artists would have been supplanted regardless. The idea of a limited "attention budget" was also discussed, with some arguing the Beatles consumed the majority of it. Finally, several commenters pointed to specific artists, like The Zombies and Gerry and the Pacemakers, as potential examples of bands negatively impacted by the Beatles' dominance.
The Hacker News post "How many artists' careers did the Beatles kill?" with the link to the article "How many artists did the Beatles kill?" generated a moderate number of comments, most of which challenged the central premise of the linked article. There's a general consensus among commenters that the article's argument is flawed and oversimplified.
Several commenters pointed out the difficulty in proving causation between the Beatles' success and the decline of other artists' careers. They argue that correlating the Beatles' rise with other artists' fall doesn't necessarily imply causation. Other factors, like changing musical tastes, the evolution of the music industry, and the individual artists' own choices and trajectories, could have played a significant role. One commenter specifically mentions that many of the artists cited in the article had already peaked or were on their way down before the Beatles reached peak popularity.
Some commenters suggest that instead of "killing" careers, the Beatles, along with other British Invasion bands, invigorated the music scene and influenced a new generation of artists. They argue the Beatles' impact was more about changing the landscape rather than eliminating competition. One commenter even proposes that the Beatles' success may have inadvertently helped some artists by expanding the overall market for popular music.
A few commenters discuss specific artists mentioned in the article, offering counter-arguments about their career trajectories. For instance, regarding the claim about Gerry and the Pacemakers, a commenter points out that the band's popularity was already waning, and their decline was likely due to internal factors rather than external competition.
While some comments acknowledge that the Beatles' immense popularity undoubtedly had an impact on the music scene, they reject the notion that they single-handedly "killed" other artists' careers. The overall sentiment leans towards a more nuanced understanding of the dynamic music industry of the 1960s, where numerous factors contributed to artists' success and failure. The comments generally find the article's thesis too simplistic and lacking in sufficient evidence.