Stories with Tag Warranty

• Hard disk fraud: long runtimes on new Seagate hard disks

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  Posted: 2025-02-09 14:50:11

  Verbose tl;dr

  Reports are surfacing about new Seagate hard drives, predominantly sold through Chinese online marketplaces, exhibiting suspiciously long power-on hours and high usage statistics despite being advertised as new. This suggests potential fraud, where used or refurbished drives are being repackaged and sold as new. While Seagate has acknowledged the issue and is investigating, the extent of the problem remains unclear, with speculation that the drives might originate from cryptocurrency mining operations or other data centers. Buyers are urged to check SMART data upon receiving new Seagate drives to verify their actual usage.

  This Heise online article reports on a growing concern surrounding potentially fraudulent Seagate hard drives, specifically focusing on drives exhibiting unusually long runtime counts despite being advertised as new. These drives, predominantly purchased through online marketplaces like AliExpress and eBay, are raising red flags among buyers who are discovering SMART data indicating significantly higher operating hours than expected for a brand-new product. This discrepancy suggests that the drives may not be new at all, but rather refurbished or used drives being deceptively marketed as new.

  The article highlights several key aspects of the alleged fraud. Firstly, it points out the widespread nature of the issue, with numerous reports emerging from different users experiencing the same problem. This suggests a systematic issue rather than isolated incidents. Secondly, it underscores the financial implications of this deceptive practice. Consumers are paying for new, premium-priced hard drives but receiving used products with potentially diminished lifespans and reliability. This represents a clear violation of consumer trust and a potential breach of sales contracts.

  The article delves into the possible origins of these fraudulent drives, pointing towards evidence suggesting a connection to China. While not definitively pinpointing the source, the prevalence of affected drives originating from or transiting through Chinese distribution channels strengthens this hypothesis. The article mentions a potential scenario where used server hard drives are being relabelled and sold as new consumer drives. This is particularly concerning given the heavy workloads server drives typically endure, leading to increased wear and tear compared to drives intended for consumer use.

  Further contributing to the complexity of the issue is the difficulty in definitively proving fraud. While the unusually high runtime counts raise strong suspicions, it remains challenging to unequivocally demonstrate malicious intent. This ambiguity complicates efforts to hold sellers accountable and obtain refunds or replacements. The article emphasizes the importance of vigilance when purchasing hard drives, particularly from online marketplaces. It advises consumers to be wary of suspiciously low prices and to utilize tools to check SMART data upon receiving a new drive to verify its actual usage history.

  Finally, the article mentions the potential long-term consequences of this alleged fraud, both for consumers and the storage industry as a whole. Eroding consumer trust could lead to decreased sales and damage the reputation of reputable hard drive manufacturers. The article implicitly calls for increased scrutiny of supply chains and stricter measures to combat fraudulent practices in the online marketplace.

  • hard disk
  • hard drive
  • Seagate
  • Fraud
  • counterfeit
  • China
  • Runtime
  • performance
  • Warranty
  • consumer protection
  • Hardware
  • Storage
  • Electronics
  • Technology
  • Scam

  Summary of Comments ( 2 )
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42991006

  Verbose tl;dr

  Hacker News users discuss potential explanations for unexpectedly high reported runtime hours on seemingly new Seagate hard drives. Some suggest these drives are refurbished units falsely marketed as new, with inflated SMART data to disguise their prior use. Others propose the issue stems from quality control problems leading to extended testing periods at the factory, or even the use of drives in cryptocurrency mining operations before being sold as new. Several users share personal anecdotes of encountering similar issues with Seagate drives, reinforcing suspicion about the company's practices. Skepticism also arises about the reliability of SMART data as an indicator of true drive usage, with some arguing it can be manipulated. Some users suggest buying hard drives from more reputable retailers or considering alternative brands to avoid potential issues.

  The Hacker News comments section for the submitted article "Hard disk fraud: long runtimes on new Seagate hard disks" contains a lively discussion revolving around the potential fraud, its implications, and personal experiences with Seagate drives.

  Several commenters express skepticism about the "fraud" claim. One prominent argument is that the observed high runtime hours could be attributed to Seagate repurposing returned or refurbished drives without properly resetting the SMART data. This theory suggests that the drives aren't necessarily counterfeit, but rather used drives being sold as new, which is still deceptive but different from outright counterfeiting. This explanation resonates with several other users who have observed similar discrepancies in SMART data.

  Another commenter questions the methodology of the investigation, pointing out the small sample size and the lack of clarity about the source of the drives. They suggest that the drives might have been purchased from less reputable resellers who could be tampering with them rather than Seagate directly. This raises the concern that the article might be prematurely accusing Seagate without sufficient evidence.

  Some users share their own experiences with Seagate drives, with mixed results. While some report having had numerous Seagate drives fail prematurely, others state they've had long-lasting and reliable experiences with the brand. This anecdotal evidence highlights the complexity of the issue, suggesting that while there might be a problem with some Seagate drives, it's not necessarily a widespread or systematic issue affecting all their products.

  One commenter draws a parallel to the practice of "mining" with GPUs, where the cards are subjected to heavy workloads for extended periods, impacting their lifespan and potentially being resold as new. They suggest a similar scenario could be occurring with hard drives, where they might be used for tasks like cryptocurrency mining or other intensive operations before being repackaged and sold as new.

  The discussion also touches on the legal and consumer protection aspects of selling used drives as new. Commenters discuss the difficulties of proving such fraud and the importance of purchasing from reputable vendors. Some suggest checking SMART data upon receiving a new drive and returning it immediately if discrepancies are found.

  Finally, a few comments offer technical explanations for how SMART data can be manipulated or misinterpreted, further muddying the waters and adding complexity to the already multifaceted discussion. This reinforces the notion that while the high runtime hours are undoubtedly suspicious, definitively concluding fraud requires further investigation and more robust evidence. The overall sentiment seems to be one of cautious skepticism towards the "fraud" claim, with many users advocating for further investigation and due diligence when purchasing hard drives.

• Seagate: 'new' hard drives used for tens of thousands of hours

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  Posted: 2025-01-29 13:42:03

  Verbose tl;dr

  German consumers are reporting that Seagate hard drives advertised and sold as new were actually refurbished drives with heavy prior usage. Some drives reportedly logged tens of thousands of power-on hours and possessed SMART data indicating significant wear, including reallocated sectors and high spin-retry counts. This affects several models, including IronWolf and Exos enterprise-grade drives purchased through various retailers. While Seagate has initiated replacements for some affected customers, the extent of the issue and the company's official response remain unclear. Concerns persist regarding the potential for widespread resale of used drives as new, raising questions about Seagate's quality control and refurbishment practices.

  A disconcerting report from Tom's Hardware details allegations from German consumers who claim that Seagate, a prominent manufacturer of hard disk drives (HDDs), has been selling refurbished or previously used hard drives marketed as new. These customers, upon receiving their supposedly pristine storage devices, discovered through S.M.A.R.T. data analysis that the drives had already accumulated extensive operational hours, sometimes totaling tens of thousands. This implies that the drives, far from being factory fresh, had potentially undergone significant prior usage, raising concerns about their remaining lifespan and reliability. The affected customers reportedly purchased these drives through various online retailers, suggesting the issue may be widespread rather than isolated incidents. This practice, if confirmed, represents a potential breach of consumer trust, as customers are paying for new products while receiving hardware with a potentially diminished operational expectancy. The article highlights the importance of checking S.M.A.R.T. data upon receiving a new hard drive to verify its actual usage history. While the specifics of how these used drives ended up being sold as new remain unclear, the article underscores a growing concern regarding the transparency of hardware supply chains and the potential for misrepresentation of product condition. The situation leaves open questions about Seagate's quality control processes and whether this is a localized incident limited to the German market or a more pervasive issue affecting a broader customer base. The implications for Seagate's reputation and customer confidence remain to be seen as the situation unfolds and investigations continue.

  • Seagate
  • Hard Drives
  • HDD
  • Used Hard Drives
  • Refurbished Hard Drives
  • Resold Hard Drives
  • Customer Complaints
  • Hardware
  • PC Components
  • Storage
  • data storage
  • Consumer Electronics
  • Tech News
  • Product Quality
  • Warranty

  Summary of Comments ( 164 )
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42864788

  Verbose tl;dr

  Hacker News commenters express skepticism and concern over the report of Seagate allegedly selling used hard drives as new in Germany. Several users doubt the veracity of the claims, suggesting the reported drive hours could be a SMART reporting error or a misunderstanding. Others point out the potential for refurbished drives to be sold unknowingly, highlighting the difficulty in distinguishing between genuinely new and refurbished drives. Some commenters call for more evidence, suggesting analysis of the drive's physical condition or firmware versions. A few users share anecdotes of similar experiences with Seagate drives failing prematurely. The overall sentiment is one of caution towards Seagate, with some users recommending alternative brands.

  The Hacker News post "Seagate: 'new' hard drives used for tens of thousands of hours" has generated a significant discussion with a variety of comments. Many users express skepticism and concern about Seagate's quality control and business practices.

  Several commenters share personal anecdotes of Seagate hard drive failures, reinforcing the negative perception of the brand. Some suggest that Seagate might be repackaging and reselling returned or refurbished drives as new, potentially without adequately disclosing this to consumers. This practice is viewed as deceptive and raises concerns about the true lifespan and reliability of these "new" drives.

  A few commenters propose that the issue might be related to a specific batch or retailer, rather than a widespread problem across all Seagate products. They suggest that the drives in question might have been used for testing or burn-in procedures before being repackaged and sold. However, this explanation is met with skepticism by others, who argue that such extensive usage (tens of thousands of hours) is unusual even for testing purposes.

  Some users discuss the importance of checking SMART data (Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology) upon receiving a new hard drive. This data can reveal the drive's usage history, including power-on hours and error counts, allowing buyers to identify potentially problematic drives. Several commenters share tools and techniques for accessing and interpreting SMART data.

  A few commenters mention alternative hard drive brands, such as Western Digital, and suggest that consumers consider these options due to the perceived reliability issues with Seagate. However, others point out that all hard drive manufacturers can have occasional failures and that brand loyalty is not always a reliable indicator of quality.

  There is also a discussion about the legal and ethical implications of selling used hard drives as new. Some users argue that this practice constitutes fraud and that consumers should be entitled to refunds or replacements. Others discuss the difficulty of proving that a drive was previously used, especially if the SMART data has been reset or modified.

  Finally, some commenters offer practical advice for mitigating the risk of hard drive failure, such as regularly backing up data and using RAID configurations for redundancy. They emphasize the importance of data security and the potential consequences of relying on a single hard drive for critical information.