Stories with Tag knowledge

• A brief meditation on formal systems and lying goblins

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  Posted: 2025-03-06 22:00:38

  Verbose tl;dr

  The blog post explores the limitations of formal systems, particularly in discerning truth. It uses the analogy of two goblins, one always truthful and one always lying, to demonstrate how relying solely on a system's rules, without external context or verification, can lead to accepting falsehoods as truths. Even with additional rules added to account for the goblins' lying, clever manipulation can still exploit the system. The post concludes that formal systems, while valuable for structuring thought, are ultimately insufficient for determining truth without external validation or a connection to reality. This highlights the need for critical thinking and skepticism even when dealing with seemingly rigorous systems.

  This blog post, titled "A Brief Meditation on Formal Systems and Lying Goblins," delves into the fascinating intersection of formal systems, logic, and the challenges of extracting truthful information from unreliable sources. The author constructs a thought experiment involving a population of goblins, some of whom invariably speak the truth, and others who consistently lie. The central problem revolves around devising a strategy to reliably determine the veracity of statements made by these goblins, given that one cannot ascertain a priori which type of goblin one is interacting with.

  The author meticulously lays out the formal framework for this puzzle. They introduce the concept of truth-telling goblins, represented symbolically, and lying goblins, similarly represented. This symbolic representation allows for the manipulation of statements and the exploration of logical consequences within a clearly defined system. The post then proceeds to examine the complexities introduced by the goblins' deceptive nature. A simple question, such as inquiring about the nature of the goblin itself (truth-teller or liar), proves insufficient, as both types would provide the same answer if attempting to deceive.

  The core of the post focuses on the development of a questioning strategy that can circumvent the goblins' inherent deceptiveness. The author explores the idea of nested questions, effectively asking a goblin about what another goblin would say. This indirect approach leverages the predictable nature of the goblins' lies: a liar will always lie about what a truth-teller would say, and vice-versa. By carefully constructing these nested inquiries, one can effectively force the goblins to reveal the truth, irrespective of their individual predilection for truth or falsehood.

  The author further elaborates on the underlying principles at play, highlighting the power of formal systems in dissecting and solving such puzzles. By representing the problem within a formal framework, one can systematically explore potential solutions and rigorously test their validity. The post concludes by emphasizing the broader implications of this thought experiment. It serves as a microcosm of the challenges we face in the real world when dealing with information from potentially unreliable sources. The ability to construct robust questioning strategies, analogous to the nested inquiries used with the goblins, becomes crucial for navigating a world awash in misinformation and discerning truth from falsehood. The seemingly simple puzzle of the lying goblins thus provides a valuable lesson in the application of formal systems to complex problems of knowledge and belief.

  • formal systems
  • Logic
  • mathematics
  • Philosophy
  • goblins
  • fantasy
  • truth
  • lies
  • paradox
  • Reasoning
  • knowledge
  • belief

  Summary of Comments ( 0 )
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43285485

  Verbose tl;dr

  The Hacker News comments generally praise the clarity and engaging presentation of the article's topic (formal systems and the halting problem, illustrated by a lying goblin puzzle). Several commenters discuss the philosophical implications of the piece, particularly regarding the nature of truth and provability within defined systems. Some draw parallels to Gödel's incompleteness theorems, while others offer alternate goblin scenarios or slight modifications to the puzzle's rules. A few commenters suggest related resources, such as Raymond Smullyan's work, which explores similar logical puzzles. There's also a short thread discussing the potential applicability of these concepts to legal systems and contract interpretation.

  The Hacker News post "A brief meditation on formal systems and lying goblins" has generated several comments discussing the article's premise and exploring related concepts.

  Several commenters engage with the core idea of the article, which uses the analogy of lying goblins to illustrate how seemingly sound logical systems can lead to incorrect conclusions if based on false premises. One commenter points out the parallel to real-world scenarios where misinformation or flawed assumptions can corrupt a system, regardless of its internal consistency. They mention how this applies to areas like political discourse and conspiracy theories.

  Another commenter delves deeper into the concept of formal systems, emphasizing the distinction between validity and soundness. They clarify that a valid argument can still be untrue if its premises are false, echoing the goblin analogy. They also introduce the idea of Gödel's incompleteness theorems, suggesting that even consistent formal systems can contain unprovable truths.

  The discussion extends to the practical implications of these ideas. One commenter reflects on the challenge of identifying false premises in real-world situations, highlighting the importance of critical thinking and questioning assumptions. Another commenter draws a connection to Bayesian reasoning, suggesting that incorporating prior probabilities can help mitigate the risk of being misled by false information.

  Further comments explore related philosophical themes, touching on the nature of truth and the limits of knowledge. One commenter mentions the concept of "unknown unknowns," emphasizing the difficulty of accounting for information that we are not even aware of.

  Some commenters also offer alternative analogies to illustrate the same principles. One suggests the image of a perfectly functioning calculator that produces incorrect results due to a user inputting the wrong numbers.

  Overall, the comments on the Hacker News post provide a thoughtful and engaging discussion of the article's core ideas, exploring their implications in various contexts and connecting them to broader philosophical and mathematical concepts. They highlight the importance of critical thinking, the limitations of formal systems, and the challenges of navigating a world filled with potentially misleading information.

• Wikenigma – an Encyclopedia of Unknowns

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  Posted: 2025-01-25 20:35:45

  Verbose tl;dr

  Wikenigma is a collaborative encyclopedia cataloging the unknown and unexplained. It aims to be a comprehensive resource for unsolved mysteries, encompassing scientific enigmas, historical puzzles, paranormal phenomena, and strange occurrences. The project encourages contributions from anyone with knowledge or interest in these areas, with the goal of building a structured and accessible repository of information about the things we don't yet understand. Rather than offering solutions, Wikenigma focuses on clearly defining and documenting the mysteries themselves, providing context, evidence, and possible explanations while acknowledging the unknown aspects.

  The online resource known as Wikenigma, found at wikenigma.org.uk, styles itself as an "Encyclopedia of Unknowns," dedicated to meticulously cataloging and exploring a diverse array of unsolved mysteries, unexplained phenomena, and open questions spanning a multitude of disciplines. It aims to be a comprehensive repository of enigmas, ranging from the profoundly perplexing to the curiously unresolved, fostering an environment of intellectual curiosity and collaborative investigation.

  The project distinguishes itself through a structured, wiki-like format, enabling collaborative editing and expansion of its content. Each entry, representing a specific unsolved mystery or unknown, is meticulously documented with available evidence, current theories, and potential avenues for further exploration. This encourages a dynamic and evolving understanding of each enigma as new information emerges or alternative perspectives are proposed.

  Wikenigma's scope is impressively broad, encompassing unsolved historical mysteries, such as the disappearance of Amelia Earhart and the identity of Jack the Ripper, as well as scientific conundrums like the nature of dark matter and the existence of extraterrestrial life. It also delves into the realm of the paranormal, documenting phenomena like UFO sightings and cryptid encounters, while maintaining a commitment to presenting information objectively and without definitive pronouncements on their veracity.

  The platform's emphasis on community contributions fosters a collaborative atmosphere where individuals with varying expertise and perspectives can contribute to the ongoing investigation of these mysteries. This collaborative approach, coupled with the platform's inherent transparency and open editing policy, distinguishes Wikenigma from more static sources of information, creating a living document that continuously evolves as our understanding of the unknown expands. Essentially, it aspires to be a centralized hub for exploring the fringes of human knowledge, encouraging critical thinking, and perhaps even inspiring solutions to some of the world's most enduring mysteries. By offering a structured and readily accessible compilation of unsolved enigmas, Wikenigma serves as a valuable resource for both casual enthusiasts and dedicated researchers alike, fueling a collective pursuit of understanding the unknown.

  • encyclopedia
  • unknown
  • mystery
  • unsolved
  • enigma
  • wikenigma
  • knowledge
  • exploration
  • discovery
  • Research
  • unexplained
  • anomalous
  • strange
  • curious
  • weird
  • phenomena
  • secrets
  • conspiracy
  • paranormal
  • cryptozoology
  • ufology
  • forteana

  Summary of Comments ( 4 )
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42824617

  Verbose tl;dr

  Hacker News users discussed Wikenigma with cautious curiosity. Some expressed interest in the concept of cataloging the unknown, viewing it as a valuable tool for research and sparking curiosity. Others were more skeptical, raising concerns about the practicality of defining and categorizing the unknown, and the potential for the project to become overly broad or filled with pseudoscience. Several commenters debated the philosophical implications of the endeavor, questioning what constitutes "unknown" and how to differentiate between genuine mysteries and simply unanswered questions. A few users suggested alternative approaches to organizing and exploring the unknown, such as focusing on specific domains or using a more structured framework. Overall, the reception was mixed, with some intrigued by the potential and others remaining unconvinced of its value.

  The Hacker News post "Wikenigma – an Encyclopedia of Unknowns" discussing the website wikenigma.org.uk has generated several comments exploring the concept and its potential.

  One commenter expresses enthusiasm for the idea, viewing it as a valuable resource for identifying gaps in current knowledge. They compare it to Wikipedia's list of unsolved problems but focused on concise descriptions of the unknown rather than extensive discussions of attempted solutions. They further suggest potential uses, like generating research ideas or highlighting areas ripe for exploration. This commenter also appreciates the site's simplicity and lack of "cruft," suggesting it could be a good starting point for a "citizen science" project.

  Another commenter draws a parallel between Wikenigma and the concept of "negative knowledge," referencing a blog post that discusses the importance of acknowledging what we don't know. They also suggest potential categories for Wikenigma entries, like "unknown unknowns" (things we don't know we don't know) and "known unknowns" (things we know we don't know). They find the project intriguing but express concern about distinguishing genuine unknowns from things that are simply poorly documented or understood.

  A further comment focuses on the challenge of defining "unknown." They highlight the difficulty in differentiating between truly unknown aspects of reality and things that are merely unproven or undocumented. They suggest that Wikenigma would benefit from clear criteria for inclusion, potentially distinguishing between "empirical unknowns" (things we haven't observed yet) and "theoretical unknowns" (things predicted by theories but not yet confirmed).

  One commenter questions the site's organization, pointing out the limited categorization and the potential for overlap between entries. They suggest implementing a more structured system with clear categories and subcategories to improve navigation and discoverability.

  Another commenter raises the issue of verifiability, noting that claims about the unknown are inherently difficult to verify. They express concern that without a robust verification process, Wikenigma could become a repository for speculation and pseudoscience. They suggest a system for flagging potentially dubious entries and requiring evidence or citations to support claims.

  A more skeptical comment questions the project's overall value, arguing that a catalog of unknowns is inherently less useful than a catalog of knowns. They suggest that focusing on what we do know is a more productive approach to advancing knowledge. However, they concede that Wikenigma might have some niche value in specific fields or as a source of inspiration for researchers.

  Finally, one commenter raises a technical point, suggesting the use of a specific software for building the encyclopedia. They argue that this software would provide better functionality and scalability compared to the current implementation.