Briar is a messaging app designed for high-security and censored environments. It uses peer-to-peer encryption, meaning messages are exchanged directly between devices rather than through a central server. This decentralized approach eliminates single points of failure and surveillance. Briar can connect directly via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi in proximity, or through the Tor network for more distant contacts, further enhancing privacy. Users add contacts by scanning a QR code or sharing a link. While Briar prioritizes security, it also supports blogs and forums, fostering community building in challenging situations.
Delta Chat is a free and open-source messaging app that leverages existing email infrastructure for communication. Instead of relying on centralized servers, messages are sent and received as encrypted emails, ensuring end-to-end encryption through automatic PGP key management. This means users can communicate securely using their existing email addresses and providers, without needing to create new accounts or convince contacts to join a specific platform. Delta Chat offers a familiar chat interface with features like group chats, file sharing, and voice messages, all while maintaining the decentralized and private nature of email communication. Essentially, it transforms email into a modern messaging experience without compromising user control or security.
Hacker News commenters generally expressed interest in Delta Chat's approach to secure messaging by leveraging existing email infrastructure. Some praised its simplicity and ease of use, particularly for non-technical users, highlighting the lack of needing to manage separate accounts or convince contacts to join a new platform. Several users discussed potential downsides, including metadata leakage inherent in the email protocol and the potential for spam. The reliance on Autocrypt for key exchange was also a point of discussion, with some expressing concerns about its discoverability and broader adoption. A few commenters mentioned alternative projects with similar aims, like Briar and Status. Overall, the sentiment leaned towards cautious optimism, acknowledging Delta Chat's unique advantages while recognizing the challenges of building a secure messaging system on top of email.
Signal's cryptography is generally well-regarded, using established and vetted protocols like X3DH and Double Ratchet for secure messaging. The blog post author reviewed Signal's implementation and found it largely sound, praising the clarity of the documentation and the overall design. While some minor theoretical improvements were suggested, like using a more modern key derivation function (HKDF over SHA-256) and potentially exploring post-quantum cryptography for future-proofing, the author concludes that Signal's current cryptographic choices are robust and secure, offering strong confidentiality and integrity protections for users.
Hacker News users discussed the Signal cryptography review, mostly agreeing with the author's points. Several highlighted the importance of Signal's Double Ratchet algorithm and the trade-offs involved in achieving strong security while maintaining usability. Some questioned the practicality of certain theoretical attacks, emphasizing the difficulty of exploiting them in the real world. Others discussed the value of formal verification efforts and the overall robustness of Signal's protocol design despite minor potential vulnerabilities. The conversation also touched upon the importance of accessible security audits and the challenges of maintaining privacy in messaging apps.
The blog post "Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption" explores the perceived conflict between the benefits of end-to-end encryption (E2EE) and the potential of AI. While some argue that E2EE hinders AI's ability to analyze data for valuable insights or detect harmful content, the author contends this is a false dichotomy. They highlight that AI can still operate on encrypted data using techniques like homomorphic encryption, federated learning, and secure multi-party computation, albeit with performance trade-offs. The core argument is that preserving E2EE is crucial for privacy and security, and perceived limitations in AI functionality shouldn't compromise this fundamental protection. Instead of weakening encryption, the focus should be on developing privacy-preserving AI techniques that work with E2EE, ensuring both security and the responsible advancement of AI.
Hacker News users discussed the feasibility and implications of client-side scanning for CSAM in end-to-end encrypted systems. Some commenters expressed skepticism about the technical challenges and potential for false positives, highlighting the difficulty of distinguishing between illegal content and legitimate material like educational resources or artwork. Others debated the privacy implications and potential for abuse by governments or malicious actors. The "slippery slope" argument was raised, with concerns that seemingly narrow use cases for client-side scanning could expand to encompass other types of content. The discussion also touched on the limitations of hashing as a detection method and the possibility of adversarial attacks designed to circumvent these systems. Several commenters expressed strong opposition to client-side scanning, arguing that it fundamentally undermines the purpose of end-to-end encryption.
Summary of Comments ( 131 )
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43363031
Hacker News users discussed Briar's reliance on Tor for peer discovery, expressing concerns about its speed and reliability. Some questioned the practicality of Bluetooth and Wi-Fi mesh networking as a fallback, doubting its range and usability. Others were interested in the technical details of Briar's implementation, particularly its use of SQLite and the lack of end-to-end encryption for blog posts. The closed-source nature of the Android app was also raised as a potential issue, despite the project being open source overall. Several commenters compared Briar to other secure messaging apps like Signal and Session, highlighting trade-offs between usability and security. Finally, there was some discussion of the project's funding and its potential use cases in high-risk environments.
The Hacker News post titled "Briar: Peer to Peer Encrypted Messaging" linking to Briar Project's "how it works" page generated a moderate amount of discussion, with several commenters expressing interest in the project and its technical aspects.
A recurring theme is Briar's unique approach to peer-to-peer communication, which avoids relying on central servers. Several comments delve into the specifics of this, comparing it to other messaging apps like Signal and Session. One commenter points out that Briar "uses Bluetooth and wifi-direct for local communication" when internet connectivity is unavailable, distinguishing it from apps that rely solely on internet access. Another commenter elaborates on this, explaining how this feature enables communication in "challenging network environments" like protests or areas with internet censorship.
The discussion also touches on the trade-offs of this decentralized approach. A commenter highlights the "higher barrier to entry" due to the need for direct connections or a trusted contact already on the network, contrasting it with the ease of joining centralized platforms. Another acknowledges the potential difficulty in discovering and adding contacts.
Security and privacy are also prominent in the discussion. Commenters discuss the encryption methods employed by Briar and its resistance to surveillance. One commenter inquires about metadata leaks, specifically regarding "Bluetooth broadcast device names," raising concerns about potential identification even with encrypted messages.
Furthermore, the conversation drifts towards the practical usability of Briar. Commenters discuss its interface and user experience, with some expressing a desire for a more polished design. The limited platform support (Android only at the time of the comments) is also mentioned. A commenter expresses interest in iOS and desktop support, indicating a demand for broader accessibility.
Finally, some comments provide additional context, mentioning related projects like Ricochet Refresh and the challenges of building truly decentralized and secure communication systems. One commenter mentions the historical precedent of "sneakernet" as a precursor to Briar's approach.
In summary, the comments section demonstrates a significant interest in Briar's decentralized approach to secure messaging, while also acknowledging the practical challenges and trade-offs involved. The discussion focuses heavily on the technical aspects, comparing Briar to existing solutions and exploring its potential use cases in situations where traditional communication channels are unavailable or compromised.