The Register reports that Google collects and transmits Android user data, including hardware identifiers and location, to its servers even before a user opens any apps or completes device setup. This pre-setup data collection involves several Google services and occurs during the initial boot process, transmitting information like IMEI, hardware serial number, SIM serial number, and nearby Wi-Fi access point details. While Google claims this data is crucial for essential services like fraud prevention and software updates, the article raises privacy concerns, particularly because users are not informed of this data collection nor given the opportunity to opt out. This behavior raises questions about the balance between user privacy and Google's data collection practices.
People without smartphones face increasing disadvantages in daily life as essential services like banking, healthcare, and parking increasingly rely on app-based access. Campaigners argue this digital exclusion unfairly penalizes vulnerable groups, including the elderly, disabled, and low-income individuals who may not be able to afford or operate a smartphone. This "app tyranny" limits access to basic services, creating a two-tiered system and exacerbating existing inequalities. They call for alternative access options to ensure inclusivity and prevent further marginalization of those without smartphones.
Hacker News commenters largely agree that over-reliance on smartphones creates unfair disadvantages for those without them, particularly regarding essential services and accessibility. Several point out the increasing difficulty of accessing healthcare, banking, and government services without a smartphone. Some commenters suggest this trend is driven by cost-cutting measures disguised as "convenience" and highlight the digital divide's impact on vulnerable populations. Others discuss the privacy implications of mandatory app usage and the lack of viable alternatives for those who prefer not to use smartphones. A few argue that while some inconvenience is inevitable with technological advancement, essential services should offer alternative access methods. The lack of meaningful competition in the mobile OS market is also mentioned as a contributing factor to the problem.
Glad & Co's "Paper Apps" are physical, paper-based versions of common digital applications like calendars, to-do lists, and project trackers. Designed with a focus on tactile engagement and visual simplicity, these products aim to offer a screen-free alternative for organizing and managing daily tasks. They utilize reusable components like magnets, cards, and dry-erase surfaces, allowing for dynamic updates and customization. The collection includes various formats, from wall-mounted boards to notebooks, catering to different planning needs and preferences. Ultimately, Paper Apps seek to combine the flexibility of digital tools with the tangible satisfaction of physical interaction.
Hacker News users generally expressed skepticism and amusement towards the "Paper Apps" concept. Many questioned the practicality and value proposition of physical paper versions of digital apps, particularly given their cost. Some saw them as a novelty or gag gift. Several commenters pointed out the irony of meticulously recreating digital interfaces in a physical format, highlighting the inherent limitations and lack of functionality compared to their digital counterparts. Others drew parallels to existing paper-based productivity tools, suggesting the idea wasn't entirely novel. A few appreciated the aesthetic and tactile aspects, but the overall sentiment leaned towards viewing them as a whimsical but ultimately impractical exercise.
Cory Doctorow's "It's Not a Crime If We Do It With an App" argues that enclosing formerly analog activities within proprietary apps often transforms acceptable behaviors into exploitable data points. Companies use the guise of convenience and added features to justify these apps, gathering vast amounts of user data that is then monetized or weaponized through surveillance. This creates a system where everyday actions, previously unregulated, become subject to corporate control and potential abuse, ultimately diminishing user autonomy and creating new vectors for discrimination and exploitation. The post uses the satirical example of a potato-tracking app to illustrate how seemingly innocuous data collection can lead to intrusive monitoring and manipulation.
HN commenters generally agree with Doctorow's premise that large corporations use "regulatory capture" to avoid legal consequences for harmful actions, citing examples like Facebook and Purdue Pharma. Some questioned the framing of the potato tracking scenario as overly simplistic, arguing that real-world supply chains are vastly more complex. A few commenters discussed the practicality of Doctorow's proposed solutions, debating the efficacy of co-ops and decentralized systems in combating corporate power. There was some skepticism about the feasibility of truly anonymized data collection and the potential for abuse even in decentralized systems. Several pointed out the inherent tension between the convenience offered by these technologies and the potential for exploitation.
After October 14, 2025, Microsoft 365 apps like Word, Excel, and PowerPoint will no longer receive security updates or technical support on Windows 10. While the apps will still technically function, using them on an unsupported OS poses security risks. Microsoft encourages users to upgrade to Windows 11 to continue receiving support and maintain the security and functionality of their Microsoft 365 applications.
HN commenters largely discuss the implications of Microsoft ending support for Office apps on Windows 10. Several express frustration with Microsoft's push to upgrade to Windows 11, viewing it as a forced upgrade and an attempt to increase Microsoft 365 subscriptions. Some highlight the inconvenience this poses for users with older hardware incompatible with Windows 11. Others note the potential security risks of using unsupported software and the eventual necessity of upgrading. A few commenters point out the continuing support for Office 2019, although with limited functionality updates, and discuss the alternative of using web-based Office apps or open-source office suites like LibreOffice. Some speculate this is a move to bolster Microsoft 365 subscriptions, making offline productivity increasingly dependent on the service.
Summary of Comments ( 22 )
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43253167
HN commenters discuss the implications of Google's data collection on Android even before app usage. Some highlight the irony of Google's privacy claims contrasted with their extensive tracking. Several express resignation, suggesting this behavior is expected from Google and other large tech companies. One commenter mentions a study showing Google collecting data even when location services are disabled, and another points to the difficulty of truly opting out of this tracking without significant technical knowledge. The discussion also touches upon the limitations of using alternative Android ROMs or de-Googled phones, acknowledging their usability compromises. There's a general sense of pessimism about the ability of users to control their data in the Android ecosystem.
The Hacker News post discussing The Register's article about Google's Android tracking practices has generated a substantial discussion with various viewpoints and insights.
Several commenters express concerns about the extent of data collection occurring before users even interact with apps. They discuss the implications of pre-installed apps and system-level services sending data to Google, highlighting the potential privacy risks, especially for users unaware of this background activity. Some debate the necessity of this data collection for functionality versus Google's potential exploitation for advertising or other purposes. The discussion also touches upon the difficulty for users to opt out of this tracking, given its integration within the Android operating system itself.
One recurring theme is the comparison of Android's data collection practices to those of Apple's iOS. Commenters debate which operating system provides better privacy, with some arguing that Apple's approach is more transparent and user-centric. Others point out that both companies collect significant user data, albeit through different mechanisms.
A few commenters delve into the technical aspects of the data collection, discussing the role of Firebase Cloud Messaging (FCM) and other system-level components. They explain how these components facilitate communication between devices and Google servers, enabling features like push notifications but also potentially contributing to the pre-app usage data collection.
The discussion also extends to the broader issue of data privacy in the tech industry. Commenters express frustration with the lack of control users have over their data and the pervasive nature of tracking across various platforms and services. Some advocate for stronger regulations and greater transparency from tech companies regarding data collection practices.
There are also more skeptical comments questioning the novelty or significance of the findings in The Register's article. Some suggest that this type of background data transmission is inherent in modern mobile operating systems and necessary for basic functionality. They argue that the article might be overstating the privacy implications or presenting information already known within the tech community.
Finally, some commenters offer practical advice for users concerned about privacy, such as using alternative ROMs like LineageOS or exploring privacy-focused mobile operating systems like GrapheneOS. They discuss the trade-offs between functionality and privacy, acknowledging that more privacy-centric options may require technical expertise or involve sacrificing certain features.