Colin Burrow's "Ogres Are Cool" argues that ogres, far from being simply monstrous, embody complex and often contradictory cultural anxieties. From their ambiguous origins in folklore to their modern depictions in children's stories and film, ogres reflect evolving societal fears about the other – encompassing foreignness, wildness, and the blurring of human/animal boundaries. The ogre's cannibalism, a defining characteristic, taps into primal fears of consumption and the violation of social taboos, while simultaneously offering a perverse fascination with transgression. Ultimately, the enduring appeal of the ogre lies in its capacity to embody these anxieties in a figure that is both terrifying and strangely compelling.
The Discworld, a flat disc carried on the backs of four elephants standing on a giant turtle, operates on narrative causality rather than strict physics. Things happen because the story requires them to, allowing for both humorous and poignant explorations of human nature and society. Magic is real, but unpredictable and often tied to belief, while the conventional laws of science are frequently bent or broken. This unique setting allows Pratchett to satirize everything from fantasy tropes and political structures to philosophy and the nature of belief itself, creating a world that is both absurd and deeply insightful.
The Hacker News comments on "Discworld Rules" largely praise Venkatesh Rao's insightful distillation of Pratchett's narrative style. Several commenters highlight the "rules" about how magic works, specifically the idea of narrative causality and how belief shapes reality on the Discworld. The observation that Discworld satirizes existing tropes and cliches while simultaneously using them effectively also resonated. Some discussion revolved around how these "rules" apply to other fictional worlds and real-world phenomena like religion and politics. A few commenters mentioned their favorite Discworld books and characters, adding a personal touch to the appreciation for Rao's analysis. One commenter aptly summarized the essence of the Discworld as "reality is a negotiable construct."
The blog post explores the limitations of formal systems, particularly in discerning truth. It uses the analogy of two goblins, one always truthful and one always lying, to demonstrate how relying solely on a system's rules, without external context or verification, can lead to accepting falsehoods as truths. Even with additional rules added to account for the goblins' lying, clever manipulation can still exploit the system. The post concludes that formal systems, while valuable for structuring thought, are ultimately insufficient for determining truth without external validation or a connection to reality. This highlights the need for critical thinking and skepticism even when dealing with seemingly rigorous systems.
The Hacker News comments generally praise the clarity and engaging presentation of the article's topic (formal systems and the halting problem, illustrated by a lying goblin puzzle). Several commenters discuss the philosophical implications of the piece, particularly regarding the nature of truth and provability within defined systems. Some draw parallels to Gödel's incompleteness theorems, while others offer alternate goblin scenarios or slight modifications to the puzzle's rules. A few commenters suggest related resources, such as Raymond Smullyan's work, which explores similar logical puzzles. There's also a short thread discussing the potential applicability of these concepts to legal systems and contract interpretation.
Summary of Comments ( 9 )
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43369739
HN users largely agree with the author's premise that ogres are experiencing a cultural resurgence, moving away from purely monstrous depictions. Several commenters highlight Shrek as the pivotal turning point, making ogres sympathetic and even heroic. Some discuss the etymology of "ogre," linking it to Hungarian and historical figures like Attila the Hun. Others explore the shifting portrayals of ogres in various media, from Tolkien to Dungeons & Dragons, noting their complex and sometimes contradictory nature (brutal yet family-oriented). A few users push back, arguing that ogres have always had a multifaceted presence in folklore, predating Shrek. There's also a brief discussion of other "monster" rehabilitations in popular culture.
The Hacker News post "Ogres Are Cool" (linking to a London Review of Books article of the same name) generated a modest discussion with 15 comments. Several commenters engage with the premise of the article, which, based on the comments, seems to explore the evolving portrayal and cultural significance of ogres.
One commenter appreciates the author's exploration of how ogres, initially figures of terror, have become somewhat sympathetic figures. They highlight the shift from ogres being purely monstrous to their portrayal in works like "Shrek" where they possess relatable qualities and struggles. Another commenter picks up on this thread, mentioning George MacDonald's "The Princess and the Goblin" and suggesting that perhaps ogres have always held a more nuanced position in folklore than solely being objects of fear.
The discussion also touches upon the nature of folklore and mythology. One commenter remarks on the fluid nature of such stories, highlighting how they adapt and change across cultures and over time. This malleability, they suggest, is what allows figures like ogres to be reinterpreted and recontextualized.
A couple of comments offer further reading suggestions related to folklore and mythology, pointing to other analyses of fairy tales and monstrous figures. One commenter even draws a parallel to Tolkien's orcs, suggesting that they, too, underwent a similar shift from purely evil beings to more complex characters with their own motivations, particularly in the works of Tolkien's son, Christopher.
There's a brief tangent about video game representations of ogres, with one commenter mentioning how they're often portrayed as brutes or cannon fodder. Another commenter contrasts this with the nuanced portrayal of ogres in the tabletop role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons, suggesting that their depiction there allows for more complex interactions and character development.
Overall, the comments section reflects a general agreement with the article's premise and explores the evolving cultural understanding of ogres. The commenters delve into the adaptable nature of folklore, comparing different portrayals of ogres in literature and gaming, and reflecting on the shift from pure monster to more complex and sometimes sympathetic figure. The discussion remains relatively focused on the topic, without significant digressions or disagreements.